Virtua Fighter 5 REVO · v1.10 · Region: South America
Elo rating
Overall, and on each character played 10+ times1504 #1,990 of 3,686 on the Elo list →
Lei Fei1521163 matches
Jeffry1511113 matches
El Blaze1509109 matches
Goh148281 matches
Brad150144 matches
Lau151028 matches
The overall rating moves on every match, whatever was picked; a character's rating adds this player's own adjustment on it. Both run from every recorded match since v1.10; how they are worked out is on the Elo list.
Characters played — VF5's own record
| Lei Fei | 28 | 1,780 | 869 | 911 | 48.8% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| El Blaze | 28 | 1,106 | 540 | 566 | 48.8% |
| Jeffry | 27 | 989 | 508 | 481 | 51.4% |
| Lau | 27 | 781 | 399 | 382 | 51.1% |
| Goh | 24 | 483 | 213 | 270 | 44.1% |
| Jean | 23 | 388 | 178 | 210 | 45.9% |
| Brad | 26 | 102 | 57 | 45 | 55.9% |
These are the totals VF5 keeps for each character, read from the newest replay stored for it. They cover the player's whole ranked career and take no period.
Inputs per second
1,622 of 2,165 rounds counted5.7 inputs a second (341 a minute) this season. Faster than 11% of the 4,069 regulars with enough rounds counted to compare.
By character played
| Lei Fei | 5.7 | 341 | 499 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jeffry | 5.7 | 342 | 444 |
| El Blaze | 5.9 | 356 | 58 |
| Goh | 5.5 | 332 | 308 |
| Brad | 5.9 | 353 | 176 |
| Lau | 5.7 | 344 | 113 |
| Jean | 5.4 | 322 | 24 |
By opponent's character
| Akira | 5.6 | 338 | 268 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Aoi | 5.6 | 337 | 195 |
| Wolf | 6.0 | 358 | 107 |
| Sarah | 5.9 | 352 | 160 |
| Goh | 5.8 | 351 | 94 |
| El Blaze | 5.4 | 326 | 107 |
| Lion | 5.8 | 350 | 111 |
| Jacky | 5.8 | 346 | 72 |
| Kage | 5.7 | 340 | 113 |
| Pai | 5.5 | 328 | 70 |
| Jean | 5.7 | 343 | 61 |
| Jeffry | 5.8 | 346 | 56 |
| Shun | 5.4 | 323 | 49 |
| Lau | 5.6 | 334 | 32 |
| Vanessa | 5.6 | 337 | 37 |
| Brad | 6.0 | 359 | 40 |
| Eileen | 5.3 | 319 | 25 |
| Taka | 5.3 | 320 | 22 |
| Lei Fei | 5.5 | 330 | 3 |
An input is any change on the controller (a new stick direction, a button pressed or released) from the bell to the moment a round is decided, over the live time of the round. Only rounds whose inputs have been decoded are counted. Who you face changes the pace too: see the inputs-per-second article under News.
Against each character
| Akira | 97 | 61 | 36 | 62.9% | +10.6 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Aoi | 63 | 32 | 31 | 50.8% | +0.3 |
| Wolf | 49 | 17 | 32 | 34.7% | -6.3 |
| Sarah | 43 | 19 | 24 | 44.2% | -6.0 |
| Goh | 33 | 19 | 14 | 57.6% | +2.0 |
| El Blaze | 32 | 17 | 15 | 53.1% | -1.2 |
| Lion | 32 | 16 | 16 | 50.0% | +4.5 |
| Jacky | 31 | 12 | 19 | 38.7% | -11.9 |
| Kage | 29 | 15 | 14 | 51.7% | +10.1 |
| Pai | 28 | 15 | 13 | 53.6% | +5.6 |
| Jean | 23 | 7 | 16 | 30.4% | -14.1 |
| Jeffry | 19 | 11 | 8 | 57.9% | +8.8 |
| Shun | 15 | 7 | 8 | 46.7% | -2.7 |
| Lau | 11 | 4 | 7 | 36.4% | -16.1 |
| Vanessa | 11 | 6 | 5 | 54.5% | +0.7 |
| Brad | 9 | 4 | 5 | 44.4% | -0.1 |
| Eileen | 9 | 2 | 7 | 22.2% | -26.1 |
| Taka | 6 | 3 | 3 | 50.0% | +7.6 |
| Lei Fei | 4 | 2 | 2 | 50.0% | +2.9 |
| Dural | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0.0% | -50.9 |
0 of 8 rows differ from what this player's level and their opponents' ranks predict, once the test allows for asking 8 questions at once; about 0.4 would by chance alone.
A matchup row is the particular people played on that character, not the character in general: one strong regular moves it as much as the matchup does.
By ring shape
| Breakable Half Fence | 75 | 31 | 44 | 41.3% | -6.9 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Breakable Full Fence | 66 | 32 | 34 | 48.5% | -0.3 |
| Half Fence | 60 | 30 | 30 | 50.0% | +0.4 |
| Octagon | 57 | 26 | 31 | 45.6% | -3.3 |
| Single Wall | 52 | 25 | 27 | 48.1% | -2.0 |
| Open | 48 | 26 | 22 | 54.2% | +5.6 |
| Full Fence | 46 | 27 | 19 | 58.7% | +5.4 |
| Low Fence | 42 | 17 | 25 | 40.5% | -11.4 |
| Full Fence and Open | 36 | 23 | 13 | 63.9% | +17.1 |
| Rectangle | 33 | 14 | 19 | 42.4% | -5.4 |
0 of 10 rows differ from what this player's level and their opponents' ranks predict, once the test allows for asking 10 questions at once; about 0.5 would by chance alone.
With or without walls
| Stages | Matches | Win % | Expected | vs expected |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Walls | 337 | 47.5% | 49.1% | -1.6 |
| No walls | 142 | 47.9% | 49.9% | -2.0 |
Walls against open: +0.4 points (95% range -9.1 to +9.9), p 0.933 — no measurable difference.
The fence-and-open stages and Training Room are on neither side, as on the stage report.
How these are tested
- Each match gets an expected result from the two players' ranks, read off the ladder's rank-against-rank win rates, and shifted by one number per player so the expected wins add up to the actual ones. A row's gap is how far above that expectation it sits, against the same measure over the player's other matches.
- Matches against the same opponent are not independent, so each test is widened by how unevenly this player's results fall across the people they played. Rows under 30 decided matches or 10 different opponents on either side carry no test, and each table is corrected for the number of rows tested in it.
- Not adjusted for: how strong an opponent is for their rank. Rank carries most of it; the rest needs a rating model.
Most played opponents
| omuretukun (Rank 23) | 26 | 20 | 6 | 76.9% |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Recordingthematch (Rank 23) | 20 | 10 | 10 | 50.0% |
| ぽん (Rank 31) | 15 | 5 | 10 | 33.3% |
| yasai (Rank 23) | 12 | 6 | 6 | 50.0% |
| こて (Rank 27) | 10 | 2 | 8 | 20.0% |
| GWO (Rank 25) | 9 | 4 | 5 | 44.4% |
| ズサ齋藤 (Rank 27) | 9 | 6 | 3 | 66.7% |
| 委員ちょ (Rank 21) | 9 | 8 | 1 | 88.9% |
| TERA (Rank 24) | 8 | 5 | 3 | 62.5% |
| hexa-RAh (Rank 24) | 8 | 4 | 4 | 50.0% |
| pinturicchio (Rank 25) | 8 | 3 | 5 | 37.5% |
| あかげら (Rank 23) | 8 | 4 | 4 | 50.0% |
| コデリン03 (Rank 23) | 8 | 5 | 3 | 62.5% |
| 銀 (Rank 28) | 8 | 4 | 4 | 50.0% |
| MaxMuncy (Rank 21) | 7 | 3 | 4 | 42.9% |
| NORESPECT (Rank 27) | 7 | 4 | 3 | 57.1% |
| 鳩男 (Rank 30) | 7 | 2 | 5 | 28.6% |
| HayanieMozu (Rank 21) | 6 | 3 | 3 | 50.0% |
| 失礼!スマッシュ☆彡 (Rank 27) | 6 | 2 | 4 | 33.3% |
| 龍仙人【鬼手仏心】 (Rank 26) | 6 | 4 | 2 | 66.7% |
| CELIS (Rank 28) | 5 | 2 | 3 | 40.0% |
| Martin1833 (Rank 25) | 5 | 2 | 3 | 40.0% |
| fazz00r (Rank 28) | 5 | 1 | 4 | 20.0% |
| クロサギ@はなちゃん (Rank 31) | 5 | 4 | 1 | 80.0% |
| 造り酒屋の御曹司 (Rank 22) | 5 | 2 | 3 | 40.0% |
Most played opponents, most recent first
| ズサ齋藤 (Rank 27) | 2026/09/15 | 9 | 6 | 3 | 66.7% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| クロサギ@はなちゃん (Rank 31) | 2026/09/15 | 5 | 4 | 1 | 80.0% |
| ぽん (Rank 31) | 2026/09/15 | 15 | 5 | 10 | 33.3% |
| NORESPECT (Rank 27) | 2026/09/13 | 7 | 4 | 3 | 57.1% |
| 失礼!スマッシュ☆彡 (Rank 27) | 2026/09/13 | 6 | 2 | 4 | 33.3% |
| こて (Rank 27) | 2026/09/10 | 10 | 2 | 8 | 20.0% |
| omuretukun (Rank 23) | 2026/09/09 | 26 | 20 | 6 | 76.9% |
| Martin1833 (Rank 25) | 2026/09/07 | 5 | 2 | 3 | 40.0% |
| Recordingthematch (Rank 23) | 2026/09/06 | 20 | 10 | 10 | 50.0% |
| 委員ちょ (Rank 21) | 2026/09/06 | 9 | 8 | 1 | 88.9% |
| HayanieMozu (Rank 21) | 2026/09/02 | 6 | 3 | 3 | 50.0% |
| fazz00r (Rank 28) | 2026/08/29 | 5 | 1 | 4 | 20.0% |
| 鳩男 (Rank 30) | 2026/08/29 | 7 | 2 | 5 | 28.6% |
| 銀 (Rank 28) | 2026/08/28 | 8 | 4 | 4 | 50.0% |
| あかげら (Rank 23) | 2026/08/24 | 8 | 4 | 4 | 50.0% |
| コデリン03 (Rank 23) | 2026/08/24 | 8 | 5 | 3 | 62.5% |
| hexa-RAh (Rank 24) | 2026/08/21 | 8 | 4 | 4 | 50.0% |
| yasai (Rank 23) | 2026/08/21 | 12 | 6 | 6 | 50.0% |
| GWO (Rank 25) | 2026/08/17 | 9 | 4 | 5 | 44.4% |
| TERA (Rank 24) | 2026/08/17 | 8 | 5 | 3 | 62.5% |
| pinturicchio (Rank 25) | 2026/08/05 | 8 | 3 | 5 | 37.5% |
| MaxMuncy (Rank 21) | 2026/05/28 | 7 | 3 | 4 | 42.9% |
| 造り酒屋の御曹司 (Rank 22) | 2026/05/27 | 5 | 2 | 3 | 40.0% |
| CELIS (Rank 28) | 2026/05/10 | 5 | 2 | 3 | 40.0% |
| 龍仙人【鬼手仏心】 (Rank 26) | 2026/04/30 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 66.7% |
Round openings
Every character
| forward movement into guardG | 130 | 6.0% |
|---|---|---|
| evade down | 114 | 5.3% |
| Zaban Hekishou66P+K | 88 | 4.1% |
| forward movement into forward dash | 78 | 3.6% |
| Bunkyaku3K | 70 | 3.2% |
| Rolling Low Knuckle1P | 61 | 2.8% |
| offensive move | 58 | 2.7% |
| forward movement into throw escape | 51 | 2.4% |
| backdash into Kaisei Tento1P+K | 46 | 2.1% |
| evade down into guardG | 44 | 2.0% |
| throw escape | 40 | 1.9% |
| Hammer Slide1P into Grizzly Hammer1PP | 38 | 1.8% |
| Ducking Low2K+G | 37 | 1.7% |
| Overblow Shoulder66P+K | 34 | 1.6% |
| guardG | 29 | 1.3% |
370 further openings account for the other 1,249 rounds.
Lei Fei
- Career
- 869–911 · 48.8%
- This season
- 163 matches · 51.5%
- Peak rank
- 28
First hit in 48.6% of 663 rounds. Won 54.0% of the rounds they struck first, 50.4% of the rounds they were struck first.
Significant Tells
- Against El Blaze: backs off first in 26.9% of rounds, against 8.8% against everyone else.
- After losing a round: moves in first in 23.3% of rounds, against 6.9% after winning one.
- Against El Blaze: opens with “backdash into 1P+K Kaisei Tento” in 23.1% of rounds, against 5.5% against everyone else.
- After opening the round before with “offensive move”: opens with “offensive move” in 23.9% of rounds, against 6.8% after anything else.
- After losing a round: opens with “forward movement into G guard” in 13.3% of rounds, against 3.8% after winning one.
- When behind: opens with “3K Bunkyaku” in 16.9% of rounds, against 7.3% when ahead or level.
| Zaban Hekishou66P+K | 88 | 13.2% |
|---|---|---|
| Bunkyaku3K | 70 | 10.5% |
| offensive move | 58 | 8.7% |
| forward movement into guardG | 53 | 8.0% |
| backdash into Kaisei Tento1P+K | 46 | 6.9% |
| evade down | 42 | 6.3% |
| Toushou66P | 19 | 2.9% |
| Kochouheki (Deflect)236P+K | 14 | 2.1% |
| crouch into Gaiken6P+K | 14 | 2.1% |
| forward movement into forward dash | 14 | 2.1% |
| evade down into Kakushu Suigeki6P | 13 | 1.9% |
| punchP into Sayu ShoukenPP | 13 | 1.9% |
| Tenshi Ryusentai6K+G | 12 | 1.8% |
| guardG | 12 | 1.8% |
| Dantai4K | 10 | 1.5% |
81 further openings account for the other 187 rounds.
By stage type
Record against each character on walled and open stages, as Lei Fei
| Opponent | Walls | No walls | Walls vs open, rank-adjusted, pts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Akira | 18–8 · 69% | 3–5 · 38% | too few to test |
| Aoi | 3–11 · 21% | 5–1 · 83% | too few to test |
Walls: every fence, rectangle and octagon stage. No walls: open, low fence and single-wall stages. Snow Mountain and Training Room are left out.
Jeffry
- Career
- 508–481 · 51.4%
- This season
- 113 matches · 47.8%
- Peak rank
- 27
First hit in 48.4% of 442 rounds. Won 50.5% of the rounds they struck first, 50.4% of the rounds they were struck first.
Significant Tells
- In round 1: evades first in 25.7% of rounds, against 10.3% in their other rounds.
- After losing a round: moves in first in 37.3% of rounds, against 16.6% after winning one.
- When behind: moves in first in 42.9% of rounds, against 16.3% when ahead or level.
| Hammer Slide1P into Grizzly Hammer1PP | 38 | 8.6% |
|---|---|---|
| Ducking Low2K+G | 37 | 8.3% |
| Overblow Shoulder66P+K | 34 | 7.7% |
| forward movement into guardG | 28 | 6.3% |
| forward movement into forward dash | 24 | 5.4% |
| forward movement into throw escape | 22 | 5.0% |
| crouch into Toe Kick2K | 20 | 4.5% |
| evade down | 17 | 3.8% |
| crouch into Ducking Low2K+G | 13 | 2.9% |
| evade down into guardG | 11 | 2.5% |
| backdash into Double Hammer Down43P | 10 | 2.2% |
| evade down into throw escape | 9 | 2.0% |
| punchP into Double KnucklePP | 9 | 2.0% |
| evade down into Hell Dunk Elbow2P+K | 8 | 1.8% |
| backdash into Rising Hammer43PP | 7 | 1.6% |
79 further openings account for the other 157 rounds.
El Blaze
- Career
- 540–566 · 48.8%
- This season
- 109 matches · 46.8%
- Peak rank
- 28
First hit in 41.2% of 432 rounds. Won 51.1% of the rounds they struck first, 50.4% of the rounds they were struck first.
Significant Tells
- After losing a round: moves in first in 21.5% of rounds, against 5.4% after winning one.
| Rolling Low Knuckle1P | 61 | 14.0% |
|---|---|---|
| Demon Dance9P+K into Demon's Tail9P+KK | 27 | 6.2% |
| Shadow Strike6P | 26 | 6.0% |
| throw escape | 23 | 5.3% |
| Shouda46PP into Rising Back Spin Kick46PPK | 20 | 4.6% |
| forward movement into guardG | 20 | 4.6% |
| evade down | 18 | 4.1% |
| forward movement into throw escape | 16 | 3.7% |
| forward movement into forward dash | 10 | 2.3% |
| Backswing Rocket1P+K | 9 | 2.1% |
| evade down into High Spin KickK+G | 9 | 2.1% |
| guardG | 9 | 2.1% |
| backdash into guardG | 8 | 1.8% |
| backward movement into Straight6P+K | 8 | 1.8% |
| evade down into guardG | 8 | 1.8% |
76 further openings account for the other 165 rounds.
Goh
- Career
- 213–270 · 44.1%
- This season
- 81 matches · 42.0%
- Peak rank
- 24
First hit in 44.5% of 308 rounds. Won 55.5% of the rounds they struck first, 39.2% of the rounds they were struck first.
Significant Tells
- After winning a round: backs off first in 33.9% of rounds, against 11.0% after losing one.
- When ahead: backs off first in 32.2% of rounds, against 14.3% when behind.
| evade down | 33 | 10.7% |
|---|---|---|
| Hiji'ate6P | 23 | 7.5% |
| backdash into Karura4P+K | 19 | 6.2% |
| backward movement into Hiji'ate6P | 17 | 5.5% |
| Ni'oudaoshi3K+G | 14 | 4.5% |
| Soukyu46P into forward movement | 10 | 3.2% |
| Garyu66K into forward movement | 9 | 2.9% |
| Aragami4K into throwP+G | 8 | 2.6% |
| Sune Kudaki43P | 8 | 2.6% |
| evade down into Hoderi~Shikigami4PP | 7 | 2.3% |
| evade down into Shouda~KasumigoroshiPK | 7 | 2.3% |
| Karigeri1K | 6 | 1.9% |
| Tsukikage6K | 6 | 1.9% |
| evade down into guardG | 6 | 1.9% |
| evade down into punchP | 6 | 1.9% |
65 further openings account for the other 129 rounds.
Brad
- Career
- 57–45 · 55.9%
- This season
- 44 matches · 59.1%
- Peak rank
- 26
First hit in 34.7% of 176 rounds. Won 50.8% of the rounds they struck first, 53.0% of the rounds they were struck first.
Significant Tells
Too few rounds to test opener patterns.
| Sawk Klab6P+K into crouch | 15 | 8.5% |
|---|---|---|
| forward movement into forward dash | 15 | 8.5% |
| evade down into guardG | 14 | 8.0% |
| Middle Spin Kick66K | 12 | 6.8% |
| Sharp Shoot1P | 11 | 6.2% |
| forward movement into guardG | 10 | 5.7% |
| backdash into guardG | 8 | 4.5% |
| backdash into Further Low1K+G | 7 | 4.0% |
| Dtee Sawk Dtrohng4P+K into crouch | 5 | 2.8% |
| Sharp Shoot1P into crouch | 5 | 2.8% |
| Dtee Sawk Dtrohng4P+K | 4 | 2.3% |
| Jaguar Tail2K+G | 4 | 2.3% |
| Turn Savate44K | 4 | 2.3% |
| backdash into Pap Sawk Kao46K+G | 4 | 2.3% |
| crouch into Sharp Shoot1P | 4 | 2.3% |
36 further openings account for the other 54 rounds.
Lau
- Career
- 399–382 · 51.1%
- This season
- 28 matches · 53.6%
- Peak rank
- 27
First hit in 43.4% of 113 rounds. Won 46.9% of the rounds they struck first, 51.6% of the rounds they were struck first.
Significant Tells
Too few rounds to test opener patterns.
| Fukko Kensou1P | 16 | 14.2% |
|---|---|---|
| forward movement into guardG | 12 | 10.6% |
| forward movement into forward dash | 10 | 8.8% |
| crouch into Chisoutai2K+G | 7 | 6.2% |
| forward movement into Chisoutai2K+G | 4 | 3.5% |
| Shakashou3P | 3 | 2.6% |
| backdash | 3 | 2.6% |
| guardG | 3 | 2.6% |
| Chugeki6P | 2 | 1.8% |
| Fukko Kensou1P into evade down | 2 | 1.8% |
| Kokyaku Haiten7K | 2 | 1.8% |
| RenshouPP into Renshou Senputai3PPK | 2 | 1.8% |
| Senchutai3K | 2 | 1.8% |
| Senkyaku Chushou3KP into Senkyaku Renkan Sakurokushou3KPP | 2 | 1.8% |
| backdash into Honten Rakutoutai46K+G | 2 | 1.8% |
35 further openings account for the other 41 rounds.
Jean
- Career
- 178–210 · 45.9%
- This season
- 7 matches · 71.4%
- Peak rank
- 23
Significant Tells
Too few rounds to test opener patterns.
| Shitanagi Shutou1P | 4 | 16.7% |
|---|---|---|
| Gyaku Seikenzuki66P | 3 | 12.5% |
| forward movement into guardG | 3 | 12.5% |
| Gedan Mawashigeri2K into Gedan~Joudan Mawashigeri2KK | 1 | 4.2% |
| Kakegeri9K into kickK | 1 | 4.2% |
| KounirenPP into Nishin KakegeriPPK | 1 | 4.2% |
| Nozuchi1P+K | 1 | 4.2% |
| Shitamaeken2P | 1 | 4.2% |
| Sune'ori1K+G | 1 | 4.2% |
| backdash into Kousenshu4KP | 1 | 4.2% |
| evade up into guardG | 1 | 4.2% |
| forward dash into forward movement | 1 | 4.2% |
| forward movement | 1 | 4.2% |
| forward movement into Yoko'enpi6P | 1 | 4.2% |
| forward movement into forward dash | 1 | 4.2% |
2 further openings account for the other 2 rounds.
How these are tested
A tell is a habit in how this player starts a round: something they do clearly more often in one situation than in the others — backing off more in round 2, say, or opening with one move more against one character. Each situation is compared with how they actually opened their rounds, and a tell is listed only if it is too strong to be a fluke even after allowing for how many situations were checked on this page. Anything weaker is left out, so a character with no tells listed may still have habits, just none the data can show for certain.
- An opener is filed by what the player did first: attack (a named move or any button), move in (forward dash, forward movement or crouch dash forward), wait (guard, crouch or no input), back off (backdash, crouch dash back or backward movement) or evade. Each is also tested as the exact opener: the character's five most used, and the rest together.
- Up to ten things known before a round starts are tested against the opener: which round it is, the opponent's character, the ring shape, how the player opened the round before and how the opponent did, whether they won or lost the round before, who landed the first hit of the round before, whether they go into it ahead, level or behind, and -- where a Shun is playing -- the drink points he starts it on: the player's own if they are Shun, the opponent's if they face one. Each is a chi-square test, divided by how much more alike the rounds of one match are than separate rounds would be, and never made more generous by it. Checked by shuffling the data so that nothing is there: the tests then find something no more often than chance allows.
- Round results and drink points come from each match's round record, matched to its openers by the two players and the date. A match whose record is missing, lacks rounds the openers have, or does not add up to the match's result sits out of those four tests only. These four are compared only between rounds of the same number -- the score and the drinks follow from which round it is (every match starts level and on no drinks), so a pattern that is only “the first round is different” is not counted as one of theirs. Drawn rounds count toward neither side of the score, and the round after one has no previous result. Drink points are grouped as on the Shun report (none, 1–4, 5–9 and so on), with neighbouring groups joined where they are thin.
- A character is tested with at least 300 rounds from 30 matches. Rare cases are pooled before testing, and a pattern is only named where it holds up after correcting for every test on this page (57 here; about 2.9 would come up by chance alone before the correction).
- Walls against open is tested per opponent with 30+ matches and 10+ different players on each side, allowing for both players' ranks, and corrected across every player page at once: 0 of 2,552 hold up. With stages shuffled at random: 0 of 2,651–2,673.
Tests behind each character's list
- Lei Fei: 6 of 15 tests hold up
- Jeffry: 3 of 14 tests hold up
- El Blaze: 1 of 15 tests hold up
- Goh: 2 of 13 tests hold up
- Brad: not tested (too few rounds)
- Lau: not tested (too few rounds)
- Jean: not tested (too few rounds)
