Virtua Fighter 5 REVO · v1.10 · Region: Asia
ぷりけつウルフ
Elo rating
Overall, and on each character played 10+ times1817 #329 of 3,686 on the Elo list →
The overall rating moves on every match, whatever was picked; a character's rating adds this player's own adjustment on it. Both run from every recorded match since v1.10; how they are worked out is on the Elo list.
Characters played — VF5's own record
| El Blaze | 42 | 3,882 | 2,132 | 1,750 | 54.9% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Sarah | 38 | 1,258 | 689 | 569 | 54.8% |
| Wolf | 36 | 762 | 424 | 338 | 55.6% |
| Jeffry | 26 | 11 | 9 | 2 | 81.8% |
These are the totals VF5 keeps for each character, read from the newest replay stored for it. They cover the player's whole ranked career and take no period.
Inputs per second
3,562 of 5,393 rounds counted9.3 inputs a second (559 a minute) this season. Faster than 90% of the 4,069 regulars with enough rounds counted to compare.
By character played
| El Blaze | 9.6 | 576 | 1,434 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Sarah | 8.8 | 530 | 790 |
| Wolf | 9.3 | 559 | 1,294 |
| Jeffry | 8.6 | 517 | 44 |
By opponent's character
| Akira | 9.5 | 571 | 306 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Kage | 9.2 | 553 | 287 |
| Jacky | 9.4 | 564 | 250 |
| Pai | 9.2 | 553 | 194 |
| Jean | 9.4 | 565 | 237 |
| Sarah | 9.3 | 556 | 252 |
| Brad | 9.1 | 546 | 187 |
| Lion | 9.0 | 542 | 210 |
| Goh | 9.5 | 571 | 241 |
| Wolf | 9.6 | 574 | 206 |
| Jeffry | 9.4 | 563 | 159 |
| Lau | 9.1 | 546 | 184 |
| Vanessa | 9.4 | 562 | 134 |
| Lei Fei | 9.4 | 567 | 163 |
| Aoi | 9.2 | 550 | 146 |
| Shun | 9.2 | 553 | 135 |
| Eileen | 9.1 | 547 | 107 |
| El Blaze | 9.2 | 553 | 94 |
| Taka | 9.7 | 580 | 48 |
| Dural | 9.4 | 565 | 22 |
An input is any change on the controller (a new stick direction, a button pressed or released) from the bell to the moment a round is decided, over the live time of the round. Only rounds whose inputs have been decoded are counted. Who you face changes the pace too: see the inputs-per-second article under News.
Against each character
| Akira | 126 | 68 | 58 | 54.0% | -0.9 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Kage | 105 | 55 | 50 | 52.4% | -5.5 |
| Jacky | 104 | 53 | 51 | 51.0% | -3.6 |
| Pai | 87 | 38 | 49 | 43.7% | -10.1 |
| Jean | 85 | 53 | 32 | 62.4% | +0.9 |
| Sarah | 83 | 55 | 28 | 66.3% | +11.3 |
| Brad | 77 | 45 | 32 | 58.4% | +2.1 |
| Lion | 76 | 46 | 30 | 60.5% | +2.9 |
| Goh | 73 | 43 | 30 | 58.9% | +4.3 |
| Wolf | 72 | 46 | 26 | 63.9% | +9.3 |
| Jeffry | 70 | 44 | 26 | 62.9% | +7.6 |
| Lau | 67 | 27 | 40 | 40.3% | -13.7 |
| Vanessa | 54 | 34 | 20 | 63.0% | +6.3 |
| Lei Fei | 53 | 25 | 28 | 47.2% | -8.1 |
| Aoi | 51 | 28 | 23 | 54.9% | -3.0 |
| Shun | 47 | 28 | 19 | 59.6% | +5.7 |
| Eileen | 44 | 23 | 21 | 52.3% | -0.9 |
| El Blaze | 34 | 15 | 19 | 44.1% | -7.7 |
| Taka | 18 | 11 | 7 | 61.1% | +5.0 |
| Dural | 9 | 6 | 3 | 66.7% | +12.1 |
0 of 18 rows differ from what this player's level and their opponents' ranks predict, once the test allows for asking 18 questions at once; about 0.9 would by chance alone.
A matchup row is the particular people played on that character, not the character in general: one strong regular moves it as much as the matchup does.
By ring shape
| Full Fence | 164 | 86 | 78 | 52.4% | -3.2 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Rectangle | 158 | 88 | 70 | 55.7% | -0.5 |
| Breakable Half Fence | 154 | 96 | 58 | 62.3% | +7.1 |
| Single Wall | 147 | 77 | 70 | 52.4% | -3.7 |
| Octagon | 136 | 69 | 67 | 50.7% | -3.1 |
| Low Fence | 127 | 73 | 54 | 57.5% | +1.9 |
| Open | 118 | 63 | 55 | 53.4% | -1.9 |
| Half Fence | 109 | 63 | 46 | 57.8% | +2.0 |
| Breakable Full Fence | 94 | 57 | 37 | 60.6% | +5.5 |
| Full Fence and Open | 68 | 34 | 34 | 50.0% | -6.5 |
0 of 10 rows differ from what this player's level and their opponents' ranks predict, once the test allows for asking 10 questions at once; about 0.5 would by chance alone.
With or without walls
| Stages | Matches | Win % | Expected | vs expected |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Walls | 815 | 56.3% | 55.4% | +0.9 |
| No walls | 392 | 54.3% | 55.6% | -1.2 |
Walls against open: +2.1 points (95% range -3.9 to +8.2), p 0.492 — no measurable difference.
The fence-and-open stages and Training Room are on neither side, as on the stage report.
How these are tested
- Each match gets an expected result from the two players' ranks, read off the ladder's rank-against-rank win rates, and shifted by one number per player so the expected wins add up to the actual ones. A row's gap is how far above that expectation it sits, against the same measure over the player's other matches.
- Matches against the same opponent are not independent, so each test is widened by how unevenly this player's results fall across the people they played. Rows under 30 decided matches or 10 different opponents on either side carry no test, and each table is corrected for the number of rows tested in it.
- Not adjusted for: how strong an opponent is for their rank. Rank carries most of it; the rest needs a rating model.
Most played opponents
| lapislazuli (Rank 35) | 24 | 11 | 13 | 45.8% |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| せろり☆ (Rank 44) | 17 | 5 | 12 | 29.4% |
| ねこむーと (Rank 38) | 15 | 12 | 3 | 80.0% |
| 巨峰好き☆銀狼 (Rank 38) | 15 | 8 | 7 | 53.3% |
| ikkyusaaan (Rank 40) | 14 | 7 | 7 | 50.0% |
| ひらがなであおき (Rank 40) | 14 | 8 | 6 | 57.1% |
| ぱりぱり (Rank 40) | 13 | 4 | 9 | 30.8% |
| KA-GO (Rank 39) | 12 | 6 | 6 | 50.0% |
| manatsu_7 (Rank 43) | 12 | 3 | 9 | 25.0% |
| okinawa_39 (Rank 41) | 12 | 8 | 4 | 66.7% |
| stepan_BVFA (Rank 37) | 12 | 9 | 3 | 75.0% |
| あむざん (Rank 38) | 12 | 5 | 7 | 41.7% |
| デネ (Rank 41) | 12 | 4 | 8 | 33.3% |
| Re:Biz (Rank 38) | 11 | 6 | 5 | 54.5% |
| 苦道訓|kudoukun_goh (Rank 39) | 11 | 9 | 2 | 81.8% |
| JAYABOX (Rank 33) | 10 | 4 | 6 | 40.0% |
| chima0818turi (Rank 39) | 10 | 6 | 4 | 60.0% |
| ken3000wo (Rank 35) | 10 | 8 | 2 | 80.0% |
| kenzan1955 (Rank 38) | 10 | 6 | 4 | 60.0% |
| タピる。 (Rank 36) | 10 | 9 | 1 | 90.0% |
| CrossGorgonzola (Rank 43) | 9 | 2 | 7 | 22.2% |
| Saibo_season2 (Rank 39) | 9 | 8 | 1 | 88.9% |
| cyomiko (Rank 41) | 9 | 8 | 1 | 88.9% |
| 『ρε』.α (Rank 41) | 9 | 3 | 6 | 33.3% |
| ヘニオ (Rank 33) | 9 | 4 | 5 | 44.4% |
Most played opponents, most recent first
| せろり☆ (Rank 44) | 2026/10/10 | 17 | 5 | 12 | 29.4% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| ねこむーと (Rank 38) | 2026/10/09 | 15 | 12 | 3 | 80.0% |
| Re:Biz (Rank 38) | 2026/10/09 | 11 | 6 | 5 | 54.5% |
| 『ρε』.α (Rank 41) | 2026/10/04 | 9 | 3 | 6 | 33.3% |
| Saibo_season2 (Rank 39) | 2026/10/04 | 9 | 8 | 1 | 88.9% |
| kenzan1955 (Rank 38) | 2026/09/30 | 10 | 6 | 4 | 60.0% |
| 巨峰好き☆銀狼 (Rank 38) | 2026/09/29 | 15 | 8 | 7 | 53.3% |
| JAYABOX (Rank 33) | 2026/09/18 | 10 | 4 | 6 | 40.0% |
| CrossGorgonzola (Rank 43) | 2026/09/16 | 9 | 2 | 7 | 22.2% |
| あむざん (Rank 38) | 2026/09/16 | 12 | 5 | 7 | 41.7% |
| cyomiko (Rank 41) | 2026/09/13 | 9 | 8 | 1 | 88.9% |
| ぱりぱり (Rank 40) | 2026/09/13 | 13 | 4 | 9 | 30.8% |
| manatsu_7 (Rank 43) | 2026/09/13 | 12 | 3 | 9 | 25.0% |
| okinawa_39 (Rank 41) | 2026/09/13 | 12 | 8 | 4 | 66.7% |
| デネ (Rank 41) | 2026/09/13 | 12 | 4 | 8 | 33.3% |
| ikkyusaaan (Rank 40) | 2026/09/13 | 14 | 7 | 7 | 50.0% |
| ひらがなであおき (Rank 40) | 2026/08/28 | 14 | 8 | 6 | 57.1% |
| タピる。 (Rank 36) | 2026/08/05 | 10 | 9 | 1 | 90.0% |
| ken3000wo (Rank 35) | 2026/07/03 | 10 | 8 | 2 | 80.0% |
| ヘニオ (Rank 33) | 2026/06/25 | 9 | 4 | 5 | 44.4% |
| KA-GO (Rank 39) | 2026/06/07 | 12 | 6 | 6 | 50.0% |
| stepan_BVFA (Rank 37) | 2026/06/06 | 12 | 9 | 3 | 75.0% |
| lapislazuli (Rank 35) | 2026/05/21 | 24 | 11 | 13 | 45.8% |
| 苦道訓|kudoukun_goh (Rank 39) | 2026/05/21 | 11 | 9 | 2 | 81.8% |
| chima0818turi (Rank 39) | 2026/04/15 | 10 | 6 | 4 | 60.0% |
Round openings
Every character
| forward movement into punchP | 245 | 4.7% |
|---|---|---|
| forward dash into throwP+G | 157 | 3.0% |
| Rising Elbow6P | 142 | 2.7% |
| crouch into Sit Jab2P | 119 | 2.3% |
| Hide Side Kick (Deflect)P+K | 110 | 2.1% |
| Shadow Strike6P | 106 | 2.0% |
| Straight6P+K | 100 | 1.9% |
| forward dash into Low Drop Kick | 92 | 1.8% |
| forward movement into Elbow Butt4P | 92 | 1.8% |
| High-Speed Jab46P into Shouda46PP | 86 | 1.6% |
| forward dash into Volcano Upper4P+K | 84 | 1.6% |
| forward dash into Serpent Toe Kick2P+K | 81 | 1.5% |
| Rising Elbow6P into kickK | 80 | 1.5% |
| backdash into evade down | 79 | 1.5% |
| crouch into Low Hammer2P | 76 | 1.4% |
601 further openings account for the other 3,598 rounds.
Counted from 1,297 of the 1,335 matches played. The rest were not pulled for openings.
El Blaze
- Career
- 2,132–1,750 · 54.9%
- This season
- 583 matches · 56.3%
- Peak rank
- 42
First hit in 50.0% of 2,209 rounds. Won 54.6% of the rounds they struck first, 50.8% of the rounds they were struck first.
Significant Tells
- Against Shun: waits first in 23.9% of rounds, against 10.7% against everyone else.
- On Full Fence stages: moves in first in 42.7% of rounds, against 31.8% on the other stages.
- When ahead: attacks straight away in 42.0% of rounds, against 32.6% when level or behind.
- In round 1: opens with “6P+K Straight” in 7.1% of rounds, against 3.7% in their other rounds.
- Against Shun: opens with “crouch into 2P Sit Jab” in 22.0% of rounds, against 4.5% against everyone else.
- After winning a round: opens with “6P Shadow Strike” in 5.9% of rounds, against 2.7% after losing one.
| crouch into Sit Jab2P | 119 | 5.4% |
|---|---|---|
| forward movement into punchP | 113 | 5.1% |
| Shadow Strike6P | 106 | 4.8% |
| Straight6P+K | 100 | 4.5% |
| High-Speed Jab46P into Shouda46PP | 86 | 3.9% |
| forward dash into Volcano Upper4P+K | 84 | 3.8% |
| forward dash into throwP+G | 62 | 2.8% |
| High-Speed Jab46P | 55 | 2.5% |
| backdash into Head Smash Kick46K | 53 | 2.4% |
| forward dash into throw escape | 44 | 2.0% |
| forward dash into Sit Jab2P | 38 | 1.7% |
| forward dash into forward movement | 37 | 1.7% |
| Shadow Strike6P into kickK | 36 | 1.6% |
| Demon Dance9P+K into Demon's Tail9P+KK | 35 | 1.6% |
| Volcano Upper4P+K | 34 | 1.5% |
278 further openings account for the other 1,211 rounds.
Counted from 548 of the 583 matches played. The rest were not pulled for openings.
By stage type
Record against each character on walled and open stages, as El Blaze
| Opponent | Walls | No walls | Walls vs open, rank-adjusted, pts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Kage | 17–15 · 53% | 11–7 · 61% | too few to test |
| Akira | 14–9 · 61% | 13–12 · 52% | too few to test |
| Pai | 8–7 · 53% | 5–9 · 36% | too few to test |
| Jacky | 11–11 · 50% | 5–6 · 45% | too few to test |
| Brad | 12–5 · 71% | 8–7 · 53% | too few to test |
| Lau | 8–16 · 33% | 3–1 · 75% | too few to test |
| Lei Fei | 6–15 · 29% | 1–3 · 25% | too few to test |
| Shun | 10–6 · 62% | 3–4 · 43% | too few to test |
| Jean | 13–5 · 72% | 7–1 · 88% | too few to test |
| Sarah | 9–6 · 60% | 6–1 · 86% | too few to test |
| Aoi | 9–6 · 60% | 5–2 · 71% | too few to test |
| Eileen | 9–10 · 47% | 3–2 · 60% | too few to test |
| El Blaze | 9–11 · 45% | 3–2 · 60% | too few to test |
| Wolf | 5–4 · 56% | 6–9 · 40% | too few to test |
| Lion | 16–2 · 89% | 4–0 · 100% | too few to test |
| Vanessa | 11–7 · 61% | 3–3 · 50% | too few to test |
| Jeffry | 5–4 · 56% | 6–4 · 60% | too few to test |
Walls: every fence, rectangle and octagon stage. No walls: open, low fence and single-wall stages. Snow Mountain and Training Room are left out.
35 of this character's decided matches could not be matched to the round-openings pull, which is what says the character was played, and are left out of this table.
Sarah
- Career
- 689–569 · 54.8%
- This season
- 418 matches · 55.3%
- Peak rank
- 38
First hit in 57.4% of 1,688 rounds. Won 55.3% of the rounds they struck first, 48.9% of the rounds they were struck first.
Significant Tells
- Against Lion: waits first in 20.1% of rounds, against 7.6% against everyone else.
- After the opponent opened the round before by backing off: moves in first in 31.4% of rounds, against 21.7% after anything else.
- In round 1: opens with “6P Rising Elbow” in 13.9% of rounds, against 6.5% in their other rounds.
- Against Lion: opens with “crouch into 2P Squat Straight” in 13.2% of rounds, against 3.3% against everyone else.
| Rising Elbow6P | 142 | 8.3% |
|---|---|---|
| Hide Side Kick (Deflect)P+K | 110 | 6.5% |
| forward dash into Serpent Toe Kick2P+K | 81 | 4.8% |
| Rising Elbow6P into kickK | 80 | 4.7% |
| crouch into Squat Straight2P | 72 | 4.2% |
| forward movement into punchP | 61 | 3.6% |
| forward dash into throwP+G | 50 | 2.9% |
| backdash into Full Spin Heel Kick9K | 47 | 2.8% |
| backdash into Serpent Toe Kick2P+K | 47 | 2.8% |
| Snap Side Chop3P | 46 | 2.7% |
| Wind Knuckle6P+KP into Storm Combination6P+KPK | 42 | 2.5% |
| backdash into evade down | 41 | 2.4% |
| forward dash into Leg Slicer2K+G | 38 | 2.2% |
| backdash into evade up | 37 | 2.2% |
| kickK | 30 | 1.8% |
176 further openings account for the other 779 rounds.
By stage type
Record against each character on walled and open stages, as Sarah
| Opponent | Walls | No walls | Walls vs open, rank-adjusted, pts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Jean | 10–11 · 48% | 8–6 · 57% | too few to test |
| Goh | 17–8 · 68% | 4–3 · 57% | too few to test |
| Jacky | 11–10 · 52% | 5–7 · 42% | too few to test |
| Lion | 13–14 · 48% | 6–2 · 75% | too few to test |
| Akira | 16–10 · 62% | 4–4 · 50% | too few to test |
| Kage | 9–9 · 50% | 4–6 · 40% | too few to test |
| Brad | 9–6 · 60% | 6–3 · 67% | too few to test |
| Sarah | 12–8 · 60% | 1–2 · 33% | too few to test |
| Pai | 4–8 · 33% | 4–2 · 67% | too few to test |
| Vanessa | 5–4 · 56% | 4–3 · 57% | too few to test |
Walls: every fence, rectangle and octagon stage. No walls: open, low fence and single-wall stages. Snow Mountain and Training Room are left out.
Wolf
- Career
- 424–338 · 55.6%
- This season
- 324 matches · 54.3%
- Peak rank
- 36
First hit in 51.8% of 1,275 rounds. Won 57.4% of the rounds they struck first, 49.3% of the rounds they were struck first.
Significant Tells
- Against Shun: waits first in 38.5% of rounds, against 16.0% against everyone else.
- On Breakable Full Fence stages: backs off first in 23.9% of rounds, against 12.6% on the other stages.
- Against Shun: opens with “crouch into 2P Low Hammer” in 32.7% of rounds, against 4.8% against everyone else.
- On Rectangle stages: opens with “crouch into 2P Low Hammer” in 11.3% of rounds, against 4.3% on the other stages.
- After opening the round before with “crouch into 2P Low Hammer”: opens with “crouch into 2P Low Hammer” in 21.3% of rounds, against 6.3% after anything else.
| forward movement into Elbow Butt4P | 92 | 7.2% |
|---|---|---|
| crouch into Low Hammer2P | 76 | 5.9% |
| Quick Shoulder66P+K into forward movement | 74 | 5.8% |
| forward movement into punchP | 69 | 5.4% |
| forward dash into Low Drop Kick62K | 62 | 4.8% |
| Screw Hook63214P | 58 | 4.5% |
| Screw Hook63214P into Screw Lariat63214PP | 56 | 4.3% |
| forward dash into throwP+G | 45 | 3.5% |
| forward movement into Jab StraightPP | 40 | 3.1% |
| crouch into Low Drop Kick62K | 39 | 3.0% |
| crouch into Face Lift Kick3K | 36 | 2.8% |
| backdash into Short Shoulder46P+K | 25 | 1.9% |
| backdash into Heavy Middle Kick3K+G | 23 | 1.8% |
| punchP | 23 | 1.8% |
| Heavy Middle Kick3K+G | 22 | 1.7% |
168 further openings account for the other 547 rounds.
Counted from 321 of the 324 matches played. The rest were not pulled for openings.
By stage type
Record against each character on walled and open stages, as Wolf
| Opponent | Walls | No walls | Walls vs open, rank-adjusted, pts |
|---|---|---|---|
| Akira | 6–14 · 30% | 6–3 · 67% | too few to test |
| Jacky | 14–9 · 61% | 4–2 · 67% | too few to test |
| Goh | 9–6 · 60% | 1–6 · 14% | too few to test |
| Wolf | 13–3 · 81% | 5–4 · 56% | too few to test |
| Jeffry | 12–7 · 63% | 4–3 · 57% | too few to test |
| Pai | 6–5 · 55% | 5–9 · 36% | too few to test |
| Sarah | 14–7 · 67% | 6–0 · 100% | too few to test |
Walls: every fence, rectangle and octagon stage. No walls: open, low fence and single-wall stages. Snow Mountain and Training Room are left out.
3 of this character's decided matches could not be matched to the round-openings pull, which is what says the character was played, and are left out of this table.
Jeffry
- Career
- 9–2 · 81.8%
- This season
- 10 matches · 80.0%
- Peak rank
- 26
Significant Tells
Too few rounds to test opener patterns.
| crouch into Low Knuckle2P | 7 | 15.9% |
|---|---|---|
| forward movement into Double KnucklePP | 5 | 11.4% |
| Ducking Low2K+G | 3 | 6.8% |
| Dash Elbow66P | 2 | 4.5% |
| Knee Push4K | 2 | 4.5% |
| crouch into Side Kick3K | 2 | 4.5% |
| forward movement into punchP | 2 | 4.5% |
| punchP | 2 | 4.5% |
| punchP into Double KnucklePP | 2 | 4.5% |
| Body CrushP+K into punchP | 1 | 2.3% |
| Dash Elbow66P into punchP | 1 | 2.3% |
| Elbow Butt6P | 1 | 2.3% |
| Full Swing Double Hammer41236P+K into forward movement | 1 | 2.3% |
| Toe Kick2K into backdash | 1 | 2.3% |
| Torpedo Head Butt4P+K | 1 | 2.3% |
11 further openings account for the other 11 rounds.
How these are tested
A tell is a habit in how this player starts a round: something they do clearly more often in one situation than in the others — backing off more in round 2, say, or opening with one move more against one character. Each situation is compared with how they actually opened their rounds, and a tell is listed only if it is too strong to be a fluke even after allowing for how many situations were checked on this page. Anything weaker is left out, so a character with no tells listed may still have habits, just none the data can show for certain.
- An opener is filed by what the player did first: attack (a named move or any button), move in (forward dash, forward movement or crouch dash forward), wait (guard, crouch or no input), back off (backdash, crouch dash back or backward movement) or evade. Each is also tested as the exact opener: the character's five most used, and the rest together.
- Up to ten things known before a round starts are tested against the opener: which round it is, the opponent's character, the ring shape, how the player opened the round before and how the opponent did, whether they won or lost the round before, who landed the first hit of the round before, whether they go into it ahead, level or behind, and -- where a Shun is playing -- the drink points he starts it on: the player's own if they are Shun, the opponent's if they face one. Each is a chi-square test, divided by how much more alike the rounds of one match are than separate rounds would be, and never made more generous by it. Checked by shuffling the data so that nothing is there: the tests then find something no more often than chance allows.
- Round results and drink points come from each match's round record, matched to its openers by the two players and the date. A match whose record is missing, lacks rounds the openers have, or does not add up to the match's result sits out of those four tests only. These four are compared only between rounds of the same number -- the score and the drinks follow from which round it is (every match starts level and on no drinks), so a pattern that is only “the first round is different” is not counted as one of theirs. Drawn rounds count toward neither side of the score, and the round after one has no previous result. Drink points are grouped as on the Shun report (none, 1–4, 5–9 and so on), with neighbouring groups joined where they are thin.
- A character is tested with at least 300 rounds from 30 matches. Rare cases are pooled before testing, and a pattern is only named where it holds up after correcting for every test on this page (46 here; about 2.3 would come up by chance alone before the correction).
- Walls against open is tested per opponent with 30+ matches and 10+ different players on each side, allowing for both players' ranks, and corrected across every player page at once: 0 of 2,552 hold up. With stages shuffled at random: 0 of 2,651–2,673.
Tests behind each character's list
- El Blaze: 6 of 16 tests hold up
- Sarah: 4 of 15 tests hold up
- Wolf: 5 of 15 tests hold up
- Jeffry: not tested (too few rounds)